08
Mar
08

Who Created God?

     Last night, my girlfriend and I attended a debate held at Ohio University in Athens, and the topic was on the proof for the existence of God. There were two people who were debating, Doug Geivett who is a Chrisitan professor of philosophy at the Talbot School of Theology in California, and Michael Shermer who is a self proclaimed agnostic and the founder of Skeptic Magazine also found in California. 

     I went to the debate a little nervous not really knowing what to expect because I have never been to this kind of event. Whenever we got seated and the debate was about to begin, we noticed that the room that we were in was quickly being filled, and I believe there were exactly 1000 seats that were present and all of them were taken. This was a huge event to say the least.There were people from all different walks of life that came out for this debate. I was just excited to get things underway and see what arguments were about to be brought to the table from both sides. I love this stuff!

     As the debate pressed on, the arguments from both sides were well thought out, but I noticed one particular issue that Shermer kept bringing up, it was the question, who created God? Now, while there were many many issues that Shermer talked about that I would love to discuss, the question of who created God is a good one, but an argument that I do not believe stands up to the pressure. I want to explore this idea of who created God. I want to remind you, that this debate was entirely on discussion the existence of God and that is what I want to keep it while discussing it with you. This will involve a lot more philosophy than the usual theology, so please bare with me as I do my best to explain away the problem of who created God.

     First, I would think it would be wise to discuss the two ways in which to discuss the universe. Simply, either the universe is infinite and never had a starting point, or the universe did in fact have a starting point, and needs an explanation for how it started. Let us first deal with the idea that the universe is infinite, has always existed, was not started, and for all eternity has always been here the same as it is now.

     When we begin to think about the universe being infinte philosophically, in my mind there is a flaw to saying that the unviverse is infinite. Besides all the cosmological evidence for the universe expanding (that is another topic for later) let’s consider what it would mean if the universe were in fact infinite. We know that in order for us to get anywhere in life, we require a certain sequence of events to take place. For example, our alarm clock goes off, we get up (body processes provide energy), we take a shower, we get into our car (which also provides events that take place to move us from place to place) and we go to school. Now we are in a class room listening to what the teacher is saying. A series of events had to happen in order for us to get to that class room to hear the teacher speak. In applying this to an infinite universe we see that there would in fact be an infinite amount of events taking place and if this is true, we would have never progressed to any certain or specific point in time. I would not be writing this sentence if that were the case. If an infinite number of events in an infinite universe were happening, then there can be no scale of time to reference our life on. We rely on previous events to take us places in time, and the previous events that we rely on are infinitely long and would never get to us in time. Therefore the universe cannot be infinite because it would not be logical to say that we would be at this point in time now if an infinite amount of time has passed. Infinity has no scale of time. It is by nature infinite.

      On the other hand, I think that it makes more sense to say that the universe had a starting point. Based on the evidence of cosmology and the expansion of the universe, we know that there is an origin for the universe. On this note, I would like to use a logical statement consisting of 2 premises and 1 logical conclusion.

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore the universe has a cause.

     If modern cosmology tells us that the universe is expanding, then the question needs to be asked, expanding from what? If the universe is not infinite and did in fact have a starting point, then it would be wise to conclude that the universe sprang into existence out of nothing. When applying that to my logical statement, we can see that the universe cannot just “spring” into existence without a cause. So I would argue that the cause is God.

     Now, as this very topic was debated last night, Shermer kept asking, “Well,who created God”? Shermer suggests that there must be a cause for God, and so on after that. What Shermer does not see here is that this argument simply does not add up. Think about it! No matter what belief system you come from, there has to be some kind of ultimate reality. In my case, God is the ultimate reality, but in the case of an atheist or someone who does not believe in a Deity, the universe has to be their ultimate reality. If this is the case, then we know the universe cannot be infinite, so it only leaves the option that the universe had a starting point. We also know from our logical statement that you cannot have an event happen unless it has a cause. In which case the answer would be God. Since our answer is God, then God is our ultimate reality and He needs no explanation for His existence.

      So in conclusion and review of this whole argument. We know the universe cannot be infinite, and that according to modern cosmological evidence, the universe did have a beginning. If it did have a beginning, then the only explanation would be that some powerful and almighty being put forth the the knowledge and energy needed to cause its existence. This all powerful being would be the ultimate reality and would need to explanation for His existence. God is the one who creates out of nothing simply because He is God. I praise the Lord of the universe because He is so great and mighty. I happen to believe that that creator is the God of the Bible and has revealed himself through the person of Jesus Christ. I just hope that everyone considers the evidence for God, and understand that we serve a God who has created ex nihlo!

Sources:

www.leestrobel.com

www.reasonablefaith.org

www.biola.edu

http://www.talbot.edu/faculty/faculty_profiles/profile.cfm?n=douglas_geivett

www.skeptic.com

The Creator and the Cosmos by Hugh Ross

Advertisements

4 Responses to “Who Created God?”


  1. January 5, 2009 at 12:12 AM

    in keeping this strictly discussion based, id like a response from you.
    the unfortunate thing about this article is that, i stumbled upon your page through reading an article that had links to other pages, as soon as i read your blog, after scouring your site, i knew exactly how this blog would end. same goes for every christian point of view i have heard on this matter.
    I’m sorry but, for as long as man exists this debate will go on and on and on.
    you only gave two possible positions on the topic which acted in your favor in this discussion. you failed to mention that while man furthers his knowledge of the universe, he also learns new possibilities about the origin of the universe. while the big bang, and any new theories that take its place come up are all theories, so too, is god.
    a universe origin theory has some scientific evidence to back it up. god… does not.
    while things happen a lot in nature that provide evidence for divine intervention, until we have hard evidence to prove or disprove that, this discussion will forever go on.
    when you say that god needs no explanation then you are killing a debate before it even begins. if you need no explanation for god, why should anyone provide evidence for our point of view. why even debate if there is no open mind for considering our point of view. i know you weren’t the one debating but you did post this.
    if everything begins from something else’s end, as you very quickly put it. then it is absolutely o.k to ask who created god. be it another being, or whatever.
    have you considered that perhaps human laws of physics etc… have conditioned us to not be able to comprehend infinity. just because we are mortal it doesn’t mean the universe is.
    im no scientist so no i cant bring out evidence and put it on the table. but, when you go to a debate, you arent asked to put your faith on hold. merely just have an open mind and consider these things.

    • January 6, 2009 at 4:15 AM

      Brett, thanks so much for taking the time to read and look over my blog site, and thanks so much especially for taking your time to read my blog post on “who created God?”. Not to worry, I am not offended by anything you have said, but am actually excited about engaging you on this topic. I appreciate that you pointed out that you are not a scientist and to tell you the truth, neither am I! haha.

      Remember that as I was writing this post, I was mainly focusing on the direction that the debate went. I do however understand your concern.

      You begin by mentioning that I have only given two possible explanantions for the universe, Im assuming that you mean either the universe had a starting point or the universe has always existed without a starting point. I am with you when you say that as man gains further knowledge of the universe, we also find new discoveries. I am not doubting that. While I freely admit that I am not a cosmologist, nor do I intend to be, I have to say that there are only two possibilities in my mind. Either the universe began to exist or it has always existed with no starting point. Now within those perameters, there is room to discuss origin theories such as God or the oscilating universe theory, but the only two options are availiable, either the universe began in time or is somehow infinite. I cannot think of any other possibilities. If you are aware of more, please by all means, let me know! As far as I know, the Big Bang model holds much evidential support in the cosmology department still today and if this is the case, then a good case for the existence of God can be made. Afterall, how can the universe spring into existence on its own?

      As far as evidence for God is concerned, you say that there is no scientific evidence for God, but I will argue the other way. There are many many scholars on all different fields of study who would say that the evidence shows God to truly exist. One argument, called the Teleological argument, is in my view, a very strong argument for the existence of God. It talks about the extremly percise design of the universe that could not have happened by chance. There is tremendous work being done on other fields of study as well, such as historical evidence. The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus for example seems to be a very well put together case for the existence of God. It would do you well to review some of these arguments for God.

      Next, you go on to mention that by me saying that God needs no explanation of His existence, I kill the argument from the beginning. Well good, I think? Thats what I want to do. haha, just kidding. I am not totally sure what view you take, but for example, consider a materialist view (the universe is all there is and will be), they have to have an origin for everything. Wether its the universe itself, or matter of somekind, or whatever, there is some kind of ultimate reality. Something that exists and from which everything comes. For the sake of this discussion, lets say the universe is the ultimate reality, then the universe does not need an explanation for its existence because its all there is. Now, the other side says that if the universe is not infinite and did begin in time, then there has to be something that caused it to be, for me that is the God of the Bible. Just like the universe in the first example, God is now my ultimate reality and does not need an explanation because He is the thing from which everything comes. Its just a worldview issue and why we are discussing this issue. It comes down to the validity of the truth claims made by each system calling for truth.

      I am here to tell you that I am indeed open minded in considering these issues, but God has revealed Himself in Jesus Christ and I see the point of life to be found in Jesus. I think the evidence is out there and it really makes a difference. My bet is with the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ. I hope this proves to be helpfulf for you. Thanks so much, I look forward to talking soon. God bless!

  2. January 5, 2009 at 12:13 AM

    please dont take offence to anything i wrote i just got a little worked up

  3. 4 Gestalten
    January 11, 2009 at 6:35 PM

    You say, “No matter what belief system you come from, there has to be some kind of ultimate reality”. I come from a Buddhist belief system and I would say that this sort of question has no meaning. Whether the Universe is infinite or finite is irrelevant to us humans and has no meaning for us, these things are just words that we imperfectly understand.

    You further say, “If it did have a beginning, then the only explanation would be that some powerful and almighty being put forth the knowledge and energy needed to cause its existence”. This of course is not the only explanation. There are many others. What you suggest is simply one of many completely wrong explanations.

    Once you accept that the god you apparently believe in is merely a delusion brought about by your confusion of the meaning of the words that you use then, perhaps then, you might be getting somewhere.

    Try harder, think more deeply, relax. It will come to you in the end. Without the need for superstitious beliefs.

    Be well.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


March 2008
M T W T F S S
« Feb   Apr »
 12
3456789
10111213141516
17181920212223
24252627282930
31  

Top Clicks

  • None

Blog Stats

  • 9,990 hits

Dylan’s Twitter

Error: Twitter did not respond. Please wait a few minutes and refresh this page.


%d bloggers like this: